Saturday, 27 June 2009

  • Does anyone believe in a literal six day creation anymore?

    Does anyone believe in a literal 6 day creation anymore?



    I hear all the time "christians" saying that I am a fool to believe in creation as it is written in the bible. That I am an  Anti-Science, uninformed little sheep, who is nothing better than a little yes man who agrees with everything that my pastor or denomination or study group believes. They tell me to do a little research and I will see.

    This is what I really see....

    Christianity is and must continue to be totally committed to the special creation as described in Genesis, and Christianity must fight with its full might against the theory of evolution. And here is why.


    The Genesis creation account was to be taken literal.....
    The creation account does not contain information or invocation in any of the forms of Hebrew poetry, in either overt or covert form, and Hebrew scholars of substance are in agreement of this fact.

    The creation account is not a parable because all parables are introduced it with a simile to make it clear to the reader or hearer that it is a parable.

    Where does that leave us? How about Historic account?

    Genesis was written by Moses.

    This does not preclude the possibility that Moses had access to patriarchal records, preserved by being written on clay tablets and handed down from father to son via the line of Adam—Seth—Noah—Shem—Abraham—Isaac—Jacob, etc., as there are 11 verses in Genesis which read, 'These are the generations [Hebrew: toledoth = 'origins' or by extension 'record of the origins'] of…' As these statements all come after the events they describe, and the events recorded all took place before rather than after the death of the individuals so named, they may very well be subscripts or closing signatures, i.e. colophons, rather than superscripts or headings. If this is so, the most likely explanation of them is that Adam, Noah, Shem, and the others each wrote down an account of the events which occurred in his lifetime, and Moses, under the guidance of the Holy Spirit, selected and compiled these, along with his own comments, into the book we now know as Genesis

    Chapters 12-50 of Genesis were very clearly written as authentic history, as they describe the lives of Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, and his 12 sons who were the ancestral heads of the 12 tribes of Israel. The Jewish people, from earliest biblical times to the present day, have always regarded this portion of Genesis as the true record of their nation's history.

    But our main concern is the first 11 chapters of Genesis. These chapters have incurred the most criticism from modern scholars, scientists, and skeptics.

    So if we are to believe that Adam wrote the creation account then Adam was reveiled the creation account from YHWH because Adam was not created until the 6th day. This view is reinforced by the words, "These are the generations ofthe heavens and of the earth when they were created…" in Genesis 2:4

    The details of Day 7, the rest day, are included before this in Genesis 2:2-3, thereby completing (as we might expect) the record of a full seven-day week, before this subscript or closing signature appears.

    Then follow the events of Genesis 2:4-5:1. This section tells us about Adam, his wife Eve, and their sons, and reads very much like a personal account of what Adam knew, saw, and experienced concerning the Garden of Eden, and the creation of Eve (chapter 2), their rebellion against God (chapter 3), and the deeds of their descendants (chapter 4 to 5:1), This section ends with the words, “This is the book of the generations of Adam.”

    Adam was created a mature man, endowed with all the DNA, knowledge and skill he needed to perform all the tasks assigned him by YHWH. No cave-man here! Adam knew enough horticulture "to dress and to keep" the Garden of Eden (Genesis 2:15), and ample intelligence to recognize and name the distinct kinds of animals (Genesis 2:19). He (and Eve) could converse with God without ever having learned an alphabet, and there is no reason to suppose that he was not fully skilled in writing also


    Why am I so adamant about this? Because if you cut out creation as written in the Bible and replace it with a form such as evolution you will eventually cut out Yahshua (Jesus) our Messiah.

    Romans says

    Here is how it works: it was through one individual that sin entered the world, and through sin, death; and in this way death passed through to the whole human race, inasmuch as everyone sinned.
    (Romans 5:12)

    the whole justification of Jesus' life and death is predicated on the existence of Adam and the forbidden fruit he and Eve ate. Without the yetzer hara (evil inclination) because of Adams fall, who needs to be redeemed? Without Adam's fall into a life of constant sin terminated by death, what purpose is there to Christianity? None.

    Without Adam, without the yetzer hara(evil inclination), without sin,  Yahshua (Jesus) the Messiah is reduced to a man with a mission on a wrong planet!

    It is so important that we as Christians be consistent in our thinking. We must accept all of the Bible as God's Word.

    Yahshua was not merely a man with a mission on the wrong planet. He was truly God incarnate of a love mission to the right planet. "For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in Him should not perish, but have everlasting life" (John 3:16).

    If we cannot believe in the truth of the creation account...what does that say for the rest of God's Word?

    All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.
    (2 Timothy 3:16-17)

    Here is a video to support more of what I am saying




Comments (28)

  • CrunchyMountainMomma

    I do


    The Bible says it took 6 literal day.

  • InAweOfCreation

    Absolutely I believe it.  Science points towards a young earth, not one millions or billions of years old. 

  • AnchorsAwayx

    nope. i believe its a metaphor.

  • SerenaDante

    Lol, most Christian scientists do not believe in a literal 6-day creation. It goes against the facts. They accept the fact that while the Bible is important to them and involves many stories that one can learn from, it is entirely metaphorical.

  • Job_One_21

    @InAweOfCreation - Amen.  Science continues to prove that anything but a literal six day creation is complete bunk.

  • YouTOme

    Barry, I still believe in it, so I'll stand with you as a fellow fool, my brother.

  • James3_1

    "They accept the fact that while the Bible is important to them and involves many stories that one can learn from, it is entirely metaphorical."


    ...because serena says they do...



    I just love it when people speak for people they don't even know. That aside, I am firmly in the 6 day camp. The evidence, contrary to what some have stipulated, can be manipulated to seem to support either view. Evidence is not as foolproof as we like to say it is, no matter what everything is open to interpretation. I don't believe it because of the evidence. I don't believe in a 6 day creation because there are signs of a young earth, or signs of a flood. Those all help convince others, but they won't come to believe the truth because of the evidence either.



    I believe it because God has replaced my heart of flesh with a heart of stone, and has wiped the scales from my eyes. I believe it because it's the truth, no matter what "evidence" proves it or not. I believe it, because I believe Him.

  • YouTOme

    @James3_1 -  wow, i agree. you're right..it's really not about the evidence. it's about believing Him.  amen.

  • nicolevw

    I still believe in a literal 6 day creation, and in a young earth. 


    @InAweOfCreation -  I'm just curious - can you point me to any weblinks that show that science supports  a young earth?  Because anywhere we go with kids - ie Science World etc .......the world is billions of years old ......

  • TheDumberScott

    I believe that the word "day" may mean something other than 24 hours. I don't know how long. If I'm not mistaken, day and night weren't created until day 3. That's kind of weird to think about. So, in a sense, I believe in it. And I definitely still agree with Adam and such. And I agree that Jesus' sacrifice is necessary because of what Adam did, so without Adam, that would be interesting. Good post.

  • SwearNoAllegiance

    I do.

    No reason not to, imo.

  • Barrygw

    @TheDumberScott - @nicolevw - @YouTOme - @James3_1 - @YouTOme - @Job_One_21 - @SerenaDante - @AnchorsAwayx - @InAweOfCreation - @CrunchyMountainMomma - and Barry




    I believe on the word and in the word of God and what the writer of Genesis ment when he used the word yom (day) with a number along with evening and morning . If any of these three is used in connection with yom then yom means literal day and is used that way as a rule throughout the Bible . It (yom) can be used as period of time with out the connection and is done so in other places. Other people in the Bible refered back to these days in Genesis as days and not periods of time including Jesus and I trust on Jesus and His wisdom over mine! I can provide a link on my site fo a in depth report on the word Yom if anyone wants to read it.


    Once I understood what the writer means then it is a matter of faith to not to think my Lord Jesus lied to me.


    Many blessing to each!


    Barrygw

  • Barrygw

    Very good post Brother ! Everyone needs to come to grip in what they think about the word of God and this post points them into the right direction!


    Thanks for posting!


    Barry

  • InAweOfCreation
  • SirNickDon

    @CrunchyMountainMomma - @Job_One_21 - @YouTOme - @Barrygw - @InAweOfCreation - Here's a question.  I will probably post this soon, because now you've got me extremely curious, but I'd love some initial thoughts from here, since I respect you  guys (and I'm not sure how many other 6-day creationists read my site). 

    The Bible is full of passages about the creation and/or nature of the world that we take as metaphor.  When Job says that God spread out the skies and "cast them as hard as a mirror of bronze," or mentions that God shakes the "pillars of the earth," we all take those to be metaphors.  No creationist I know argues that the world really rests on pillars, or that the Bible teaches that it does. 

    Are we being inconsistent in our thinking by believing those were meant to be poetic expressions?  Are we not taking those as God's word?  And if seeing those passages as metaphorical (still true, though not literally true, because the sky is not as hard as bronze) is not a problem, why is it a problem to see Genesis 1-2 as a creation metaphor, telling us the truth that God fashioned the world all by himself from nothing, but doing it in a poetic, metaphorical way? 

    I'm not interested in the science of it, incidentally.  Just the interpretation of scripture. 

  • YouTOme

    @Barrygw - thanks for that brother.


    @SirNickDon - hey there - i totally understand where you're going with this, and i do understand about passages meant to be taken literally, figuratively, and out of what context, etc.  so i appreciate your wanting to go there. Our God is big enough that i'm not closed to the idea that i could be interpreting things wrong  -- that someday i could find that the genesis account was not a literal 6 days but a metaphor so as not to confuse or distract it's readers or for whatever other reason. however, when i read that account, the holy spirit still convicts me that the literal 6 days is true.   and, respectfully,  i think you probably would agree, it really wouldn't matter to me either way --- God would still be God. He's awesome either way. 


     thanks. I love discussion about all things concernng God and the Bible, but i'll admit sometimes I make the choice to disengage so as to focus on other things instead.  but i sure appreciate your thirst for knowledge and truth. blessings brother.

  • Barrygw

    @SirNickDon - God bless you brother! in your words from His word (God shakes the "pillars of the earth," ) the crust of earth rests on archs and pillars that interfaces with the molten core and they are truly shaken as this molten core forces upward and the mass of the crust is pressed to the center. And your understanding the use of the word pillars (  the world really rests on pillars)  is not exactly the understanding God wants one to have if you bring it to a literal meaning. Your word and how it applies in your use is that the pillars are resting on the earth when you think of the planet earth being a circle(sphere ) hanging on it's self .


    I again ask you to read the passages in the spirit and when doubt or understanding is needed look elsewhere in the Word first and see how these passages were taken by other people in The Word as even Jesus makes comments on these writings. If our wisdom conflicts with His then we need to seek understanding for God is not one to lie. Do you know the word replinish  used in Genesis only ment to fill at the time period it was translated into English? Then a few years later the dictonary added to this meaning a 2nd " to fill again" then even later the 1st meaning was dropped . The Bible remained true but mans understanding does not always remain true and that is not a strike against you but a cry for us to come to His word in a spirit ond a will for understanding from His wisdom and not just ours.


    Peace to you as you pray on this.


    Barry

  • Xx_IWannaWWIIRomance_xX

    The Bible says it took three days then it took three days. I'm just curious as to how many hours were in those days. You know because we are so specific in 24 hour days, they may have seen a day as from sun up to sun down. :::shrugs::: just my 2 cents worth.

  • agnophilo

    "If we cannot believe in the truth of the creation account...what does that say for the rest of God's Word?"

    Exactamundo.  However most theists refuse to actually answer that question, and assume that if thinking logically casts doubts on their religion, then thinking logically must be wrong, not the religion.

    We MUST believe the creation account, erm, I mean one of the two contradictory creation accounts in genesis 1 and 2 literally!

    Whatever dude.  Whatever.

  • Kristenmomof3

    @Xx_IWannaWWIIRomance_xX - Actually...the Jewish way of telling time is Evening to Evening. Sun set to sun set

    The Evening and the Morning the First day
    The Evening and the Morning the Second day.

    Sun up has nothing to do with any thing.

    Yom Rishon (יום ראשון), abbreviated יום א׳ = "first day"
        Yom Sheni (יום שני), abbr. יום ב׳ = "second day"
        Yom Shlishi (יום שלישי), abbr. יום ג׳ = "third day"
        Yom Reviʻi (יום רבעי), abbr. יום ד׳ = "fourth day"
        Yom Chamishi (יום חמישי), abbr. יום ה׳ = "fifth day"
        Yom Shishi (יום ששי), abbr. יום ו׳ = "sixth day
        Yom Shabbat (יום שבת or more usually שבת - Shabbat), abbr. יום ש׳ = "Sabbath day

  • Kristenmomof3

    @agnophilo - you as a nonbeliever, I do not expect to understand until you come to YHWH. All I can do is pray for you

  • Xx_IWannaWWIIRomance_xX

    @Kristenmomof3 - :::smacks forehead::: duh!!!! I already knew that and somehow my brain didn't remember. Thanks!

  • agnophilo

    @Kristenmomof3 - Sorry, but any belief that requires that you accept it as fact before you will "understand" why it's true is a cult.  And yes, I used to be christian, so don't condescend to me.  And don't say you'll "pray for me" simply because I'm not like you, as if that were a disease that must be cured.  It's insulting.

  • Kristenmomof3

    @agnophilo - I wasn't condescending to you.

    If you do not believe you need prayers. Saying prayers for you is actually caring about you. It is caring about your eternal soul and where you will be for eternity.

    Plus there was no need for me to address your question because it was already answered in my husbands post.

  • agnophilo

    @Kristenmomof3 - 

    "I wasn't condescending to you."

    Yes, you were by definition condescending to me.  Do you even know what the word means?

    "If
    you do not believe you need prayers. Saying prayers for you is actually
    caring about you."

    No, it isn't.  Would you be insulted if I told you I hope you see a psychiatrist so you can get better soon and stop being christian like me?

    But I'm just caring about you, right?

    It's insulting.

    "It is caring about your eternal soul and where you
    will be for eternity."

    Some 300 religions have a hell.  Give me a break.  That your religion has a boogeyman doesn't make the religion the slightest bit more true.  Why don't you go sign up for the army and die in battle so you'll get into valhalla while you're at it.

    "Plus there was no need for me to address your question because it was already answered in my husbands post."

    What question?  Why don't you address my statement in my last response?

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